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Game Change: Obama and the Clintons, McCain and Palin, and the Race of a Lifetime [Format Kindle]

John Heilemann , Mark Halperin
4.0 étoiles sur 5  Voir tous les commentaires (4 commentaires client)

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Descriptions du produit

Revue de presse

“A smoking new book. . . . The real revelation in Game Change: Campaigns turn our politicians into lunatics.” (Tina Brown, The Daily Beast)

“Heilemann and Halperin have conducted hundreds of interviews to provide the inside story of the 2008 campaign. . . . It vividly shows how character flaws large and small caused Obama’s opponents to self-destruct.” (Jacob Heilbrunn, The New York Times Book Review)

“A thoroughly researched, well-paced and occasionally very amusing read. . . . The result is something that conveys the feel, or perhaps more accurately the smell, of one of recent history’s most thrilling elections, and it does so better than any of the other books already on the market.” (The Economist)

“I can’t put down this book!” (Stephen Colbert)

“Compulsively readable. Once begun, you can’t put it down. . . . Deeply and knowledgeably reported and presented with all the cool sophistication one would expect from two accomplished political reporters.” (Tim Rutten, The Los Angeles Times)

“Riveting, definitive. . . . A great campaign book. . . . Halperin and Heilemann got insiders to cough up astonishing artifacts, including emails and recordings. . . . Game Change is really interesting, and puts you deep in the middle of it.” (Kurt Andersen, Very Short List)

“The hottest book in the country.” (The Associated Press)

“Everybody talked. Anybody that tells you they didn’t is lying to you.” (A former top Clinton aide, to Politico’s Ben Smith)

“The best presidential political book since What it Takes by Richard Ben Cramer and Teddy White’s books. These are the types of books that got me into politics.” (Joe Scarborough)

“An explosive new book. . . . An absolute page turner.” (Soledad O’Brien on Larry King Live)

“You’ve got to read Game Change. . . . I read each and every word. . . . Game Change is a great book.” (Don Imus)

“A fascinating account. . . . Heilemann and Halperin serve up a spicy smorgasbord of observations, revelations, and allegations. . . . Game Change leaves the reader with a vivid, visceral sense of the campaign and a keen understanding of the paradoxes and contingencies of history.” (Michiko Kakutani, The New York Times)

“Riveting. . . . Its pages brim with scandalous tidbits. . . . This is a must-read for anyone interested in the cutthroat backroom hows and whys of a presidential campaign. . . . And it doesn’t hurt that Game Change reads more bodice-ripper than Beltway.” (Tina Jordan, Entertainment Weekly)

“The authors of Game Change succeed in creating a plausible account of the emotional tumult of the 2008 campaign as it might have been—perhaps even was—experienced by the candidates, their spouses, and their staffs.” (Hendrik Hertzberg, The New Yorker)

“An amazing piece of work. . . . One of the best books on politics of any kind I’ve read. For entertainment value, I put it up there with Catch 22. . . . An absolutely gripping read . . . they can write.” (Clive Crook, The Financial Times)

Présentation de l'éditeur

“It’s one of the best books on politics of any kind I’ve read. For entertainment value, I put it up there with Catch 22.” —The Financial Times


“It transports you to a parallel universe in which everything in the National Enquirer is true….More interesting is what we learn about the candidates themselves: their frailties, egos and almost super-human stamina.” —The Financial Times


“I can’t put down this book!” —Stephen Colbert


Game Change is the New York Times bestselling story of the 2008 presidential election, by John Heilemann and Mark Halperin, two of the best political reporters in the country. In the spirit of Richard Ben Cramer’s What It Takes and Theodore H. White’s The Making of the President 1960, this classic campaign trail book tells the defining story of a new era in American politics, going deeper behind the scenes of the Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin campaigns than any other account of the historic 2008 election.

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Commentaires en ligne

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Commentaires client les plus utiles
3.0 étoiles sur 5 passionnant mais quelles informations ? 1 juillet 2012
Par pimsand
Format:Format Kindle|Achat vérifié
Les auteurs affirment avoir fait de nombreux entretiens afin de déterminer l'enchaînements des évènements. Ils utilisent alors les guillemets quand ils sont sûrs de leur référence, l'italique quand c'est rapporté de façon indirecte. Tout le reste, doit-on penser, est inventé par les auteurs. Ainsi, lorsqu'un Obanma ou une Palin sont seuls, on a peine à les suivre dans leur description de leurs pensées profondes.

En bref, un bouquin intéressant pour moi, pour avoir un point de vue sur un processus démocratique au sein de la plus grande puissance. Amusant de voir les américains râler sur le pouvoir de l'argent mais exclure toute limitation dans les dons et l'accumulation des avoirs de campagne.

J'ai été également amusé de voir que Palin maltraitée dans le bouquin (à raison, notamment pour son ignorance crasse) a ensuite passé au stade de mère courage suite au film qui a suivi le bouquin.
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5.0 étoiles sur 5 Très intéressant 4 juillet 2012
Par JYves
Format:Format Kindle|Achat vérifié
Beaucoup de plaisir à lire cet ouvrage. Sur un ton journalistique, ce livre reprend tous les moments de la campagne connus ou moins connus, moments clés qui ont permis d'arriver au résultat que l'on connaît. J
J'ai eu beaucoup de plaisir à me replonger dans cette campagne qui a été passionnante.
Je ne trouve pas de point négatif à dire. Si le sujet vous intéresse, foncez. Si vous aimez la politique, ou si vous voulez mieux connaître les States, n'hésitez pas non plus.
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1 internautes sur 2 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
5.0 étoiles sur 5 Game Change 24 mars 2010
A rattling good read! Like a fast-paced thriller, with lots of fascinating insights. Recommended for all politics buffs.
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1 internautes sur 9 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
3.0 étoiles sur 5 Weep for the World 13 février 2010
Read this book and weep for our country and for a world that needs someone capable and caring in the White House. And when you finish, blame a media who never told us what Obama was like. Others knew. Bill Clinton had this to say during the campaign on page 5:

'But mostly Bill was enraged with the media, which he believed had brutalized his wife white treating Obama with kid gloves. This is bullshit, he said, "The guy's a phony. He has no experience, he has no record; he's not nearly ready to be commander in chief."'

That's why I like to remind people that the same media who told us that Obama was highly capable has also tried to convince us that Palin isn't. Now look at what's happening. We have a bumbling, fumbling President who's obsessed with matching himself against the losing candidate for Vice-President. That's never happened before. And the guy is utterly clueless about how to deal with rogue states like Iran. Are you ready for terrorists with nukes?

Two problems with this book:

1. The authors seem obsessed with claiming that something unprecedented took place in the 2008 elections. That's hardly true. We elected someone as corrupt with Harding, someone as arrogant with LBJ, someone as dishonest with Nixon, and someone as incompetent with Carter. In this case, we simply have all four rolled up in one dreadful package.

2. Don't expect the HarperCollins hardback version to last very long. It has the flimsiest paper I've ever seen in a hardback, thin and easily torn like newsprint. You can see through to the print on the other side. It's a cost-saving scheme like the paper in cheap, mass-market paperbacks. The publisher must have decided to save a few cents at our expense.

--Michael W. Perry, editor of Chesterton on War and Peace: Battling the Ideas and Movements that Led to Nazism and World War II
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Commentaires client les plus utiles sur (beta) 3.7 étoiles sur 5  1.047 commentaires
876 internautes sur 987 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
5.0 étoiles sur 5 Changing your opinions of politicians and a great gossipy read! 11 janvier 2010
Par Todd Bartholomew - Publié sur
"Game Change" was not even on sale and it was already roiling the political waters with its shocking revelations. There is a rich tradition of books about presidential campaigns that break news not revealed during the campaign and "Game Change" has PLENTY of revelations. The one getting a great deal of play was Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's inappropriate racially tinged comments about candidate Obama, which managed to be kept under wraps, while then-Senator Biden's made their way out. 2008 was the year of "Candidates Gone Wild," saying ridiculous and inappropriate things like Obama's comment on people clinging to their guns, religion, and bitterness. But there's so much here that never got out. Like Elizabeth Edwards, who has carefully cultured a public persona as the victimized suffering wife, belittling her husband John as a "hick" and in private launching into obscenity laced tirades at him and about him. Heilemann and Halperin examine both sides of the race and there are plenty of great gossipy stories on both sides, as well as other shocking revelations, such as how rushed the selection of Governor Sarah Palin as Vice-President was. We already knew that virtually no one in the Republican leadership was consulted over the choice and only know do we learn how rushed the decision was and how little thought or consideration was truly given to the choice. Moreover, the choice was primarily tactical in nature, designed to knock the Obama campaign off balance and off guard. Only after Palin was selected did the McCain campaign realize that they had made a huge tactical error they could not undo. The ensuing problems within the McCain-Palin campaign are chronicled here, but considering how much press there was at the time there's little here that breaks new ground. It is however a very great, gripping recounting of the chain of events.

Obama comes off every bit as stage-crafted and stage-managed as Ronald Reagan ever was. Heilemann and Halperin aptly capture the duality of his persona; on the stump Obama is well spoken, on message, cool, calm, and collected. Off the stump he is profane, prone to quick flashes of anger, and at times tentative and uncertain. Hillary Clinton comes off pretty much as was covered in the press at the time, but what IS news is her unsurprisingly blunt comment to Obama that she "cannot control her husband". Bill Clinton gets almost as much print here for his wildly inappropriate comments on the stump and in private about Candidate Obama and it's clear to see that what undid Hillary wasn't her efforts, but those of her husband. We get the clearest glimpse into Obama's hard sell when he talks Hillary Clinton into ending her campaign and into becoming Secretary of State as well.

"Game Change" answers many of the questions you had about the campaign, but which were never answered, like Rudy Giuliani's foolish all-or-nothing gamble on the Florida Primary and why he truly got out of the race, the Democratic conclave that prodded then-Senator Obama into the race in the first place, and so much more. Reading "Game Change" is like reliving the campaign all over again, but THIS time with the insider knowledge of details that were omitted by the campaigns and the press. If anything this will not only enlighten you but enrage you, as the media and the press clearly are NOT doing their jobs at all. All of this SHOULD have made it's way into the news during the campaign and yet it didn't. Truth is stranger than fiction, and with truth written this well, who needs fiction?
243 internautes sur 271 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
4.0 étoiles sur 5 We're All Human - 11 janvier 2010
Par Loyd E. Eskildson - Publié sur
"Game Change" is about the 2008 election. The most obvious question is "What could be new in this book - the campaign was already covered in incredible detail for nearly two years by bloggers, national media, local media - anyone with a camera and/or a link to the Internet. The answer is that most of the material concerns previously unreported personal details rather than much in the way of national policy or any sort of analysis of the electorate. The result is that whether you like it or not, "Game Change" has put the nation back into a supercharged 'gossip mode,' combining high-level scandals in the Clinton, Edwards, and McCain campaigns, with allegations of presidential unfitness in the Clinton, Edwards, and McCain-Palin campaigns, along with a bit of racism thrown in for good measure. This volatile mixture has since been ignited by "60 Minutes," "Good Morning America," and other TV interviews. Initial reaction from those named in the book has largely been denial, except for Senator Reid regarding his comments on Senator Obama's relatively benign blackness not being an impediment for the presidency. Denials, unfortunately, will probably go unrebutted - the book makes extensive use of unattributed quotes and deep-background interviews that don't permit fact-checking.

Sarah Palin clearly provides the juiciest material, mostly from McCain's campaign manager Steve Schmidt. It's a strange position - he led McCain to Palin, then lambasts her unfitness and poor preparation, and finally ends up admitting that without her it would have been worse. Regardless, it's scary to see how close she came to being a heartbeat away from the presidency, despite barely understanding what the Cold War was all about, not understanding why there's a North and South Korea, or even what the Federal Reserve does. Palin even believed that Saddam was behind 9/11. "Game Change" also contends V.P. Cheney thought she was a poor pick. Worse yet, some contend she had bipolar symptoms - perky at times, catatonic at others. McCain operatives clearly had not done their vetting homework, then tried to make up for it by shielding her from the press - no open press conferences, and planning to make her a ceremonial V.P. in the event the McCain-Palin ticket won. Palin's real attraction was being a female - Schmidt et al somehow hoped that disillusioned Hillary supporters would flock to Palin.

Surprisingly, Elizabeth Edwards doesn't come off well either, given problems with cancer and a philandering husband. Instead, we learn that she was seen by insiders as an abusive, intrusive, paranoid, and vindictive crazy-woman, not the public persona of valiant and heroic. Elizabeth also referred to her husband back in 2004 in front of others as being her intellectually inferior - something that hard to accept at face value given his success as a trial lawyer. Naturally, John Edwards doesn't come out well either, though its surprising how badly he did. There was the obvious problem with his affair with a publicist; worse yet, his attempts to sell his endorsement to Obama in return for first the V.P., then the Attorney General positions. Obama, in return, responded that if he took such a deal he himself wouldn't deserve to be president.

Hillary Clinton was the smart-money choice for the Democratic nomination early on. However, some party leaders worried about her polarizing effect, as well as old baggage from the Bill Clinton presidency. Thus, supporters that the Clintons thought they could count on worked quitely to pord Obama to run - hence, Reid's ill-fated thoughts on a 'light-skinned Negro.' Hillary Clinton's supporters, not surprisingly, also had concerns about Bill's womanizing possibly affecting the campaign. To their relief they found that only one of the rumors was likely true - surprisingly, it never became an issue. Bill did cause/acerbate a serious problem, however, in his early discussions with Senator Kennedy - the former president's negative and racist comments about Obama offended Senator Kennedy deeply. On the other side, Mrs. Clinton's reaction to the loss in Iowa, however, did make some of her supporters wonder if she was stable enough to be president. "Game Change" also reports that Hillary had a staffer attempt to obtain Caroline Kennedy's endorsement - making it easy for Caroline to refuse the call and ignore Hillary. Interesting factoid - Hillary was talked out of running in 2004 by Chelsea, who recommended completing Hillary's Senate term first. If Hillary had won the 2004 nomination, it's not likely that Obama would have been offered the keynote speech, and . . . . Regardless, Hillary also gets a black mark for thinking about her V.P. partner as early as 2007.

Then there's the scandal I just never would have suspected - Mrs. McCain. We already knew she had a prior problem with, and overcame a drug addiction. Now we learn that there's credible reason to believe she had a long-term Arizona boyfriend. Campaign aides reportedly forced the Senator to confront her on it (no names offered), and the book also reports that they often fought in public and that there was little warmth between the couple. (Based on reports elsewhere, that probably is true.)

Bottom Line: "Game Change" is readable, interesting, and unfortunate. Unfortunate in that we learn that many of those who would lead us aren't worthy of the responsibility.
425 internautes sur 479 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
3.0 étoiles sur 5 Does it live up to the hype? 20 janvier 2010
Par DACHokie - Publié sur
Format:Relié|Achat vérifié
Amid the hoopla surrounding this book in the days prior to it's release, I couldn't wait to get a copy. Reading this book, I continually asked myself it was really worth all the hype or just a ratification of things I already knew. The last 10 years, the United States has been embroiled in such a divisive political atmosphere it comes as no surprise that most of the best-selling books are about politics and politicians ... intelligent books written about or by politicians have proven to be cash-cows that do nothing more than "energize the base" or fuel/ignite the opposition. "Game Change" gives me mixed feelings.

We should have known this was coming ... the implosion of political candidates is as entertaining as the losers that humiliate themselves on the American Idol auditions year-after-year. Years ago, a news periodical like Newsweek or Time would run juicy after-election articles documenting a defeated candidates horridly-run campaign that always included incidents of the candidate "losing grip" at one point or another. "Game Change" seemed to be nothing more than a compilation of such articles, but expertly welded together to create a generously smooth flow for the reader. In other words, other than the juicy details of the vitriol and carnage, the book didn't really reveal anything new about anyone or anything.

After all, the 24/7 news cycle already gives us more information than we need to know about all the subject matter in this book:

- we already knew obama was a "smooth operator"; intelligent and gifted at reading other people's speeches ... his outright cocky demeanor and his obvious, deep and admirable devotion to his wife and children.
- it came as no surprise that the facade Hillary Clinton publicly displays will never fully conceal the hostility simmering inside her or the holier-than-thou ego that creates a deep sense of distrust by others.
- is it surprising that John McCain is "out of touch" or that John Edwards is a narcissistic snake that is all style and NO substance?
- is there ANYTHING new (positive or negative) about Sarah Palin that hasn't already been revealed?

As a whole, "Game Change" seems to rehash many of the same stories that have been popular on most of the mainstream political blogs, which I felt was somewhat disappointing. For me, there are too few eyebrow-raising moments. If anything, the book reminded me of a movie trailer on TV that is so good you are enticed to actually see the movie in a theatre ... only to leave the theatre realizing the only good parts of the movie were in the trailer (the Harry Reid quote comes to mind).

However, what I DID enjoy about this book was:

1) it was definitely a very entertaining read ... after all, these politicians are just regular dopes like the rest of us ... they do and say stupid things ... and oftentimes, they don't always have their acts together ... in fact, I enjoyed the depiction of all these politicians displaying playground-level antics and tantrums.

2) the President has a penchant for dropping F-bombs, which I found humorous on a number of occasions

3) finding out how truly selfish, shallow and egotistical our political leaders really are.

4) how much all these people genuinely detest one another ...

5) the book is fair in that it doles-out dirt on everyone and really doesn't take sides (a truly refreshing change of pace)

Finishing "Game Change" left me with one huge question: With backstabbing, dirty tricks, lying and snickering being such a way of life for these people; how or why should ANYONE really trust ANY of them?
284 internautes sur 346 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
5.0 étoiles sur 5 A raunchy romp into the dirty laundry of the high and mighty 11 janvier 2010
Par Susanna Hutcheson - Publié sur
Format:Relié|Achat vérifié
We always wonder what's going on behind the scenes of an election and in the lives of the Washington elite. Most of us know, or eventually learn, that politicians are typically loathsome characters of few morals and mammoth egos who think nothing of lying, cheating and, in general, being insufferable human beings. And, we get a chance to see it all, up close, in this new book by political reporters Mark Halperin and John Heilemann. We get the opportunity to look behind the scenes and see these people as they really are. It's both fun and frightening. It's quite revealing. To wit . . .

Bill Clinton wanted Ted Kennedy to endorse Hillary. But instead, he angered Kennedy so badly that Kennedy went all out for Obama. Here's how it happened according to the book . . .

"As Hillary bungled Caroline, Bill's handling of Ted was even worse. The day after Iowa, he phoned Kennedy and pressed for an endorsement, making the case for his wife. But Bill then went on, belittling Obama in a manner that deeply offended Kennedy. Recounting the conversation later to a friend, Teddy fumed that Clinton had said,' A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee.' "

Of course, we have to wonder if Kennedy was telling the truth or perhaps colorizing it to fit his own agenda since Kennedy was not a moral or virtuous man or one known for telling the truth. So, in reality, this story is secondhand. It could be false or it could be taken out of context. Or, it could be true.

On another matter the Clintons wanted to go after Obama's drug use. Can you imagine alleged coke sniffer Bill going after alleged dope smoker Obama? Well, that was going to be the way it went down if the Clintons had their way.

And . . .

Before BHO decided to run for president, the Obamas flew to Nashville, TN to get Al Gore's assurance that he would not run.

Among the things we learn . . .

When Obama asked Hillary Clinton to be secretary of state, she initially turned him down. Why? Bill's penchant for controversy. She felt it would interfere with her efforts in the job.

When President-elect Obama called her again to convince her to be his secretary of state, Clinton told him there was a problem. That great big mouthy problem was her husband. "You've seen what this is like; it will be a circus if I take this job," she said to Obama.

Clinton almost never admits this to anyone. And, Obama who seldom shows his vulnerable side, admits to Hillary that he needs her. He seems overwhelmed with the economy and all that's going on, all that faces him.

The McCain-Palin camp was afraid that Sarah Palin would screw things up because of the tremendous amount of information she needed to debate Biden. "The debate was going to be a debacle of historic and epic proportions...she was not focused...not engaged." She was not really participating in the prep, the authors add.


In a recent news article Palin's spokeswoman, Meghan Stapleton, said in a statement: "The Governor's descriptions of these events are found in her book, 'Going Rogue.' Her descriptions are accurate. She was there. These reporters were not." Stapleton was talking about what was said about Palin in this book by the authors.

and then . . .

McCain aides confront Cindy McCain over reports that she had an extramarital affair.

The authors tell us that Hillary Clinton was so confident she would get the Democratic nomination that she had two top advisers planning her transition for after she won the general election.

They also point out that up until only days before the Republican Convention, Sen. John McCain was still thinking Sen. Joe Lieberman would be his running mate, until the "blowback" was so strong, they feared Lieberman would be rejected by the party, forcing the last-minute choice of Palin for the role.

Steve Schmidt, John McCain's former chief campaign strategist believes the Obama-Biden victory would have been even more lopsided without Palin on the Republican ticket, according to the book.

On John Edwards . . .

John Edwards went from being typically conceited to having megalomania. Women were always after him. He loved it and it fed his enormous ego. But it was also a problem for the campaign.

Edwards thought the contest would be between him and Hillary. The Clinton camp thought the same thing.

Edwards was normally warm to his staff. But he turned disdainful. He ignored and dismissed them. He even mistreated both staff and supporters. "You can't talk to people that way, "an aid told him after one of his displays. "People didn't like the new John Edwards."

Surprisingly, Elizabeth Edwards was fast to show John that she was his intellectual superior. She called him a "hick" in front of people and derided him for having "redneck parents." She called some staffers idiots. Her illness mellowed her in the early months of 2005 - but not for long.

While John's wife may have made him feel small, his new gal pal made him feel like a king. She told him that he had "the power to change the world," that "the people will follow you." She told him that he could be as great a leader as Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. She told him, "You're so real. You just need to get your staff out of your way." She reinforced everything he already believed about himself. She told him exactly what he wanted and needed to hear.

No one gets off free in the book. The authors tell us that Senate Majority Harry Reid (D-Nev.) had referred privately to Barack Obama early in his campaign as a "light-skinned" African American "with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one."

Ladies and gentlemen . . . meet America's elite.

This book makes Lady Chatterley's Lover as sexy as a high school algebra text book. It makes Madame Bovary look positively saintly. If even half of what this book reports is true, I've got higher forms of life on the bottom of my shoe than we've got running our country.

What a read. Gustave Flaubert couldn't have written it any better.

- Susanna K. Hutcheson
13 internautes sur 13 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
5.0 étoiles sur 5 Savvy Journalists Give Us The Scoop 18 février 2010
Par Mr. August - Publié sur
Format:Relié|Achat vérifié
Heilemann and Halperin write a revelatory book for our current political climate. Right off the bat, let me state that it appears no one in the book has denied the stories or quotes from this chronicle. So I am rather confident, these knowledgeable journalists had great sources and speak the truth. Some of it may be embellished but the book is a great page turner.

As a political junkie during 2008 campaign, I thought I knew it all, but I was not privy to many of the disclosures in this book. Let's review some:

Hillary Clinton: I knew she thought she would walk into the nomination, but with all her know-how, she really underestimated Obama's organization and Bill's lack of influence. I was sort of shocked that many of the senators had secretly approached Obama to persuade him to run, knowing that Hillary could not win. She is too divisive and naïve about loyalty. It was fascinating that Hillary strongly supported Obama for Senator; I did not know that she braved a snowstorm to arrive in Chicago to help him. I also was shocked she had a transition "team" in place before the primary.

Obama: Calculating and rather arrogant. I was a bit surprised with his flashes of anger but he seemed to sail through muddy times - Jeremiah Wright being the worst. It's hard to believe he survived that travesty which gives me hope that he can overcome his less than stellar first year.

The Edwards: Wow, fascinating. I really did not know he is such a cad and Elizabeth is a sharp-tongued shrew. I don't understand how those two believed if he did win the nomination, his cheating becoming public knowledge, that he could win. It would be death for a Democratic victory. I was not surprised that he was so confident he wanted to make a deal with Obama that Obama could be his Veep. The Edwards fall from grace was disheartening. His loyal staff deserves applause and sympathy.

Now Sarah Palin, not too many surprises for me. She is the anti-intellect and probably the cleverest politician in the group. She was not dedicated to public service (i.e. quits governorship) and duped so many shallow voters. I did not know that she could not recall Biden's name during the VP debate, hence her request to call him Joe! She did slip up once during the debate and referred to him as O'Biden.

These journalists wrote a tight, fascinating narrative of the campaign. It was a game changer and they helped change it providing us with the superb anecdotes. I have since heard both of them on news shows and they are astute and continue to support their statements. Maybe they should run for office!
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