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Lost Battles: Reconstructing the Great Clashes of the Ancient World (Anglais) Broché – 12 mars 2009


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Lost Battles: Reconstructing the Great Clashes of the Ancient World + Simulating War: Studying Conflict Through Simulation Games
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Descriptions du produit

Philip Sabin's book offers a unique and dynamic insight into ancient warfare, combining academic rigour with the accessibility of simulation gaming. Taking a new and innovative approach to the battles of antiquity, Phil Sabin draws together ancient evidence and modern scholarship to create a whole new means of examining the great clashes of the ancient world. Having developed a model to capture the movement and combat of the opposing armies we are able to actually interrogate the lessons of history. The book develops detailed 'scenarios' for individual battles such as Marathon and Cannae, to cast light on which particular interpretations of the ancient conflict are realistic. Readers can use the model to experiment for themselves by refighting engagements of their choice, tweaking the scenarios to accord with their own judgements of the evidence, trying out different tactics from those used historically and seeing how the battle then plays out.The book thus offers a unique dynamic insight into ancient warfare, combining academic rigour with the interest and accessibility of simulation gaming.


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Détails sur le produit

  • Broché: 320 pages
  • Editeur : Continuum International Publishing Group Ltd. (12 mars 2009)
  • Langue : Anglais
  • ISBN-10: 0826430155
  • ISBN-13: 978-0826430151
  • Dimensions du produit: 15,8 x 2,5 x 23,4 cm
  • Moyenne des commentaires client : 5.0 étoiles sur 5  Voir tous les commentaires (3 commentaires client)
  • Classement des meilleures ventes d'Amazon: 24.115 en Livres anglais et étrangers (Voir les 100 premiers en Livres anglais et étrangers)
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4 internautes sur 4 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile  Par Semper Victor COMMENTATEUR DU HALL D'HONNEURTOP 10 COMMENTATEURS sur 18 janvier 2012
Format: Relié
Le professeur en études stratégiques Philip A. G. Sabin, du King's College de Londres, a mené jusqu'à aujourd'hui une carrière très reconnue d'historien militaire. Ses domaines de prédilections concernent l'antiquité, la seconde guerre mondiale et la stratégie aérienne. Philip Sabin est également, un expert éclectique de la simulation des conflits. Il a par ailleurs contribué à l'ouvrage collectif « Cambridge History of Greek and Roman Warfare » (Cambridge University Press, 2007) et a publié de nombreux articles, dont un particulièrement remarqué sur « The Current and Future Utility of Air and Space Power » (Royal Air Force Air Power Review, 2010). Il s'y s'essaye à la prospective, en recourant notamment aux principes déjà utilisés dans ses recherches sur l'antiquité. Son livre « Lost Battles » a constitué, dès sa sortie en 2007, un véritable événement dans le monde du jeu d'histoire et a conduit à sa réédition dès 2009.

Tout l'intérêt de l'ouvrage réside dans l'explication très détaillée de la conception d'un véritable modèle de « reconstruction » des batailles antiques. Ce choix, longuement argumenté, réside dans la volonté de créer un système suffisamment « générique » pour permettre des comparaisons sur un échantillon suffisamment représentatif de batailles. Sabin met par ailleurs en avant plusieurs points selon lui déterminants, comme l'importance du commandement ou le niveau de pertes extrêmement disproportionné entre vainqueurs et vaincus.
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3 internautes sur 4 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile  Par Pyrrhos sur 26 août 2009
Format: Relié Achat vérifié
Philip Sabin est un universitaire spécialiste de l'histoire militaire et fin connaisseur de la guerre antique.
C'est aussi un habitué du monde du jeu d'histoire.
Dans Lost Battles, il propose l'élaboration d'un modèle de simulation des batailles antiques dans le but de disposer d'un instrument de réflexion sur la guerre des Grecs et des Romains. En particulier, son modèle vise à soumettre à l'expérience les diverses sources relatives aux effectifs des armées afin de vérifier ce qui est plausible et ce qui ne l'est pas.
Par exemple: à Marathon, on parle de 15 à 20 000 Perses contre 10 000 Grecs. Pourtant le résultat donne l'impression d'une nette supériorité de l'armée athénienne. Comment concilier cela ? En travaillant sur le type (armement, formation) et la classe (mental, expérience) des troupes jusqu'à parvenir à deux listes d'armées qui rendent plausible le résultat historique.
Le livre, après une centaine de pages d'exposé de la méthode, donne donc des scénarios pour 35 batailles, de Marathon à Pharsale. Le champ de bataille est modélisé en un grand rectangle divisé en 20 zones carrés. Des éléments de terrain sont présents (cours d'eau, colline, bois...) quand les sources les évoquent. Le lecteur peut ensuite reproduire ces batailles et mener ses propres réflexions, voir corriger le modèle s'il le juge nécessaire.
Car Philip Sabin ne prétend pas détenir l'alpha et l'oméga de la guerre antique.
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1 internautes sur 3 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile  Par Belinconnux sur 10 décembre 2009
Format: Relié
Une méthode d'analyse très innovante dans l'art de la guerre permet d'aborder les conflits anciens dans leur globalité en s'affranchissant des simples données bibliographiques forcément réduites et redondantes.
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Amazon.com: 11 commentaires
30 internautes sur 32 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
"Comparative Dynamic Modeling as a Supplement to More Traditional Scholarship 1 avril 2008
Par Daniel Weitz - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: Relié Achat vérifié
Philip Sabin has produced an original, insightful book. What we have here is a forensic laboratory to explore what happened in an ancient battle.The author thru his many years of teaching and research has sought to establish a set of general rules to explain how classical warfare took place. From this he established a "model", and based upon this model he seeks to explain thru simulations how other ancient battles; the "Lost Battles"(poorly or incompletely documented) took place. This is supplemented by web pages that enable you to actually experiment with the armies, their strangths and deployments, in the same manner as the auithor and his students did to develop their analyses.
The author sheds new light on the Spartan army, the engagements of Alexander the Great, the evolution of the Republican Roman Army and the veracity of Caesar's numerical claims. The key to victory is the quality of the troops and their general. Numbers are not as important as one may think, larger armies were simply deployed in greater depth due to problems of command and control; nor is the topography of the battlefield that crucial as generals preferred open spaces to deploy their troops. High quality troops of great repute inspired fear in their opponents thru their superior drill and discipline which gave them a noticable tactical edge on the battlefield.
One criticism of the book is at times one suspects that Sabin deals with his battles as Procrustes dealt with his victims... The bibliography and documentation is superb.
This book is a must for any ancient gamer or student of warfare.
13 internautes sur 14 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
A great simulation 11 décembre 2008
Par H. J. Acar - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: Relié Achat vérifié
Lost battles is a historical simulation of ancient warfare. With a structured approach by Phil Sabin, you can take the methodology described in the book and recreate any battle in antiquity. All of the rules you need are right in the book. Just add historical evidence and off you go!

Ok. It's not that easy. Lost Battles can be played as a miniatures game, a board game or an online game via Cyberboard. The battles are fought on a grid 5 squares wide by 4 squares deep. These squares regulate movement. There are rules for movement and combat. As you can expect, there is a random factor in the game to simulate the unknown factors of a chaotic battlefield.

The book is divided into 3 sections.

The first section describes the various parts of the wargame model and how they relate to the historical evidence found by the writings of various ancient historians.

The second section describes the battles and how the author went about deciding how to rate the various troop types. he gives a brief overview of each battle, breaks down the various troop elements and scales how large the battlefield should be. He leaves the operation of the model up to the reader to decide for himself. The reader can experiment with different deployments and different unit types or simply play the game with a buddy as a regular wargame.

The last section is the wargame rules themselves. They describe how to actually run the game/simulation. There are rules for movement, combat, morale, leadership and so forth. There are special rules for fatigue and special unit types such as the Phalanx, legion, and elephants.

So what do I think of the game? I really like the rules a lot. At first glance, I thought the game was quite simple and probably would not be rewarding past a couple of plays. After playing a game online with a friend, I found them to be far more rewarding and they did require some thought as to how to attack.

I also really like the versatility of the game being able to play it via different media.

My only gripe with the book is the way the rules are laid out. You have to skip around sometimes to find out how certain things work. Commanders abilities are defined in part in several sections for instance. It would have been better to have distinct sections and define everything there is to know about different aspects.

Minor quibbles aside, this is a fantastic simulation. It is well thought out and it encourages the reader to delve deeper into the subject to form their own opinions.
19 internautes sur 23 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
Modelling The Unknowable 12 décembre 2008
Par Charles Vasey - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: Relié
This book aims to develop a new way of looking at the warfare of the ancient world; to shine a light on the battles whose history has been lost to the moth, fire and decay. The amount of written ancient history that has survived across the centuries is small and is not really increasing; although archaeological evidence is helping. This means that for even the most important battles we can have partial histories from one or two historians, often based on other lost histories from eye-witnesses. These accounts can fail to agree on numbers, events and location. In some cases parts of each version appear unlikely and one often suspects special pleading on the parts of some or all of one's "witnesses".

Instead of despairing Phil Sabin has created a model of ancient combat based on the evidence of all the ancient battles that we have, and has turned it into a war game wherein the historian can test the various possibilities of the evidence in front of him. Did one side have 20,000 and the other 400,000? Well, now you can find out by trying it. Of course the author is not so unwise as to say that by adding together many battles about which we know little we arrive at one about which we know everything. Instead we arrive at a series of plots from which we can devise a line of best fit. This is not to say that outliers are wrong, simply that they are untypical. Phil uses as his touchstone the battle of Cannae in which a smaller army enveloped and destroyed a larger one (and led many a German general to his doom). He demonstrates how this seemingly unlikely result could have been achieved, and allows one to tinker with the solution. This is the strongest part of the model, its ability to be changed by the user to fit their views and then tested. If you belong to the camp of Xenophon, as I do, on how effective cavalry was then you can tweak the rules of the model and test away.

To the wargamer the model (a set of game rules in effect) is of medium complexity but with a limited number of units can be played quickly. Whether the general reader will be able to grasp the concept is another matter and it may be a bridge too far for many. However, the concept is one that is coming to the fore as part of modern history and this book is a valuable part of this trend.
5 internautes sur 6 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
An Academic Looks At Wargaming 11 mars 2012
Par Robert W. Jones - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: Broché Achat vérifié
Dr. Sabin has explored the possibilities of examining warfare and particular battles from history using tabletop and board games in two books; the first being this book, "Lost Battles" and the second his recent publication of "Simulating War." As a professor at King's College in London, he has dedicated his career to the analytic examination of battles throughout history using simulation or games.

His books on the subject are very interesting and full of ideas and new approaches not only for historians, but for wargaming hobbyists. What makes his works so interesting is his open acceptance of games, without apology, as a legitimate research tool for historians. His texts amply illustrate the uses of games as a serious historical tool. In fact, Lost Battles was later packaged with a board game of the same title for use by the general public.

Lost Battles covers 30 or so battle of the ancient world, and his other volume, Simulating War, is a more general statement of his studies, which extends into modern wars. I think they both belong in the libararies of historians willing to consider these tools, as well as the general public with a curiosity about simulation techniques.
5 internautes sur 6 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
5 Stars , yet I agree with the 1 star... 9 mars 2011
Par Matthew - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: Broché Achat vérifié
Below is a 1 star review. His/her? complaint is this book builds up theory and reason for simulation; lays out the battlefield and troops; provides the rules; and then does not analyze the results of such simulations in reflection of how well the system works. I agree that would have been nice, but the book is already big enough, and such information is somewhat available across the web primarily in a yahoo group dedicated to the book, though not quite as academic as the book.

The book is uniquely interesting. It delves into the academic decisions and applications used to derive a historical simulation ruleset/game. From reading elsewhere the game appears dry but is very intriguing / nail biting at times.

I personally have enjoyed the book thoroughly so far. I may even try out the game system contained therein (note there is also a pending board game coming out mid 2011, though not inexpensive).

I would value this book strictly for its historical analysis of the battles. 35 of them, deployment dispositions, battlefield maps, etc.
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