Votre compte Amazon Music n'est actuellement associé à aucun pays. Pour profiter de la musique Premium, allez sur votre Bibliothèque musicale et transférez votre compte à Amazon.fr (FR).
Acheter d'occasion
EUR 16,98
+ EUR 2,49 (livraison)
D'occasion: Très bon | Détails
Vendu par momox fr
État: D'occasion: Très bon
Commentaire: En Stock.
Vous l'avez déjà ? Vendez sur Amazon
Egalement disponible en MP3
Album MP3 à EUR 24,19

Wozzeck / Lulu

5 étoiles sur 5 1 commentaire client

1 neuf à partir de EUR 89,00 2 d'occasion à partir de EUR 16,98

Vous cherchez un CD ou Vinyle ?

CD à petits prix et en promotion
Retrouvez nos promotions et CD à petits prix.

Offres spéciales et liens associés

Page Artiste Fritz Wunderlich

Détails sur le produit

  • Interprète: Alban Berg, Karl Böhm
  • Orchestre: Fritz Wunderlich
  • Chef d'orchestre: Evelyn Lear, Karl Böhm
  • Compositeur: Alban Berg
  • CD (2 juin 1992)
  • Nombre de disques: 3
  • Label: Deutsche Grammophon
  • ASIN : B00000E53D
  • Autres versions : Téléchargement MP3
  • Moyenne des commentaires client : 5.0 étoiles sur 5 1 commentaire client
  • Classement des meilleures ventes d'Amazon: 191.890 en Musique (Voir les 100 premiers en Musique)
  •  Voulez-vous mettre à jour des informations sur le produit, faire un commentaire sur des images ou nous signaler un prix inférieur?

Liste des titres

Disque : 1

  1. Berg-wozzeck-opéra en 3 actes d'après le drame de "woyzeck" - acte 1:scene1-2-3-4-5-
  2. Berg-wozzeck-opéra en 3 actes d'après le drame de "woyzeck" - acte 2:scene 1-2-3-4-5-
  3. Berg-wozzeck-opéra en 3 actes d'après le drame de "woyzeck" - acte 3:scene 1-2-

Disque : 2

  1. Berg-wozzeck-opéra en 3 actes d'après le drame de "woyzeck" - acte 3:scene 3-4-5-
  2. Berg-lulu-opéra d'après les tragedies "l'esprit de la terre" - prologue
  3. Berg-lulu-opéra d'après les tragedies "l'esprit de la terre" - scene 1-acte 1-
  4. Berg-lulu-opéra d'après les tragedies "l'esprit de la terre" - interlude
  5. Berg-lulu-opéra d'après les tragedies "l'esprit de la terre" - scene 2
  6. Berg-lulu-opéra d'après les tragedies "l'esprit de la terre" - interlude
  7. Berg-lulu-opéra d'après les tragedies "l'esprit de la terre" - scene 3

Disque : 3

  1. Berg-lulu-opéra d'après les tragedies "l'esprit de la terre" - scene 1-acte 2
  2. Berg-lulu-opéra d'après les tragedies "l'esprit de la terre" - interlude
  3. Berg-lulu-opéra d'après les tragedies "l'esprit de la terre" - scene 2
  4. Berg-lulu-opéra d'après les tragedies "l'esprit de la terre" - variations (lulu suite)
  5. Berg-lulu-opéra d'après les tragedies "l'esprit de la terre" - adagio (lulu suite)

Descriptions du produit


Commentaires en ligne

5.0 étoiles sur 5
5 étoiles
4 étoiles
3 étoiles
2 étoiles
1 étoiles
Voir le commentaire client
Partagez votre opinion avec les autres clients

Meilleurs commentaires des clients

Format: Téléchargement MP3 Achat vérifié
On attend Karl Böhm dans la musique des XVIIIe et XIXe (j'ai écouté et ré-écouté ses enregistrements des symphonies de Mozart avec la Philarmonie de Vienne à tel point qu'elles sont devenues ma norme d'interprétation), moins dans la musique du XXe siècle.
Mais le traitement vocal et orchestral des œuvres dans cet enregistrement (surtout dans Wozzeck) laisse place au drame (il y aurait beaucoup à écrire sur le personnage de Wozzeck) dans un ensemble équilibré et, contrairement à ce que j'ai pu lire une fois ailleurs (je ne me rappelle plus où), la direction n'est pas du tout à côté de la plaque.
Et puis il y a Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau qui rattrape des passages peut-être moins convaincants d'autres personnages et rend bien l'esprit de la première moitié du dix-neuvième siècle d'une pièce pourtant si moderne et somme toute unique en son genre.
Je préfère cette version à celle de Pierre Boulez (que j'ai depuis vingt-cinq années au moins) même si en termes d'expression pure et de rendu orchestral, cette dernière est insurpassée (insurpassable ?).
1 commentaire 2 sur 2 ont trouvé cela utile. Avez-vous trouvé ce commentaire utile ? Oui Non Commentaire en cours d'envoi...
Merci pour votre commentaire.
Désolé, nous n'avons pas réussi à enregistrer votre vote. Veuillez réessayer
Signaler un abus

Commentaires client les plus utiles sur Amazon.com (beta)

Amazon.com: HASH(0x9f9b539c) étoiles sur 5 14 commentaires
28 internautes sur 28 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
HASH(0x9facfde0) étoiles sur 5 A classic Wozzeck/An outdated Lulu 26 mai 2003
Par Un client - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: CD
I received the LPs of both of these recordings in 1973 or 1974 for my birthday (I was 13 or 14 at the time), and I grew up loving them dearly (if can "love" such works). To this day, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau will always be Wozzeck Gerhard Stolze will always be the Captain as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, the Lulu recording has been superseded by versions with Cerha's completion of the 3rd act (the best of which remains Boulez's classic 1979 [?] recording). But the entire set is worth it to get this classic Wozzeck.
33 internautes sur 37 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
HASH(0x9fa81264) étoiles sur 5 Two masterworks from the years between the wars in a recording from the sixties 16 octobre 2005
Par Craig Matteson - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: CD
I remember when Schoenberg, Webern, and Berg were spoken of as the New Viennese School and compared to Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven. Seriously. From our present standpoint, it is impossible to understand how much influence these three composers had in the mid-twentieth century. These two operas continue to be performed and through them Berg has become the most widely remembered of the three.

Scholars have analyzed these works extremely closely and have discovered all kinds of symbolic patterns in the notes. For example, the music occurring around Marie as she dies seems rather chaotic, yet one scholar has shown that the music consists of ten fragments of music heard from and around her earlier in the opera. So, her life is passing before her as she dies.

There is always a debate about how much of this deep meaning one can actually hear and it does vary for each listener. This kind of discussion goes on in all the arts, but is particularly so in music because it is the most abstract of the arts. How abstract and how removed from the surface can any "meaning" be and still be heard? This was a discussion we had many times in music school and I have met no more than a very few who convinced me they could actually hear this deeply (and this is more than recognizing a given row or its transformation or hearing the most fleeting tonalities in atonal works).

For me, just as some of the ultra late romantic become somewhat over composed with a level of detail that seems to be there for its own sake, some of this minutiae is like going to a restaurant for a meal and being given an essay about a photograph of a painting of a pork chop. It may be interesting, informative, and even beautiful, but you still leave hungry.

"Wozzeck" and "Lulu" are powerful and affecting works. They do sound much more like highly chromatic, but tonal works than the abstractions of Webern. "Lulu" is the more severe and, well, bleak of the two. I have heard more than a few praise these works for telling the truth about human life and getting to the true center of the human heart. To me, they seem more like artworks that were above all anti-bourgeois and seem proud of that stance. They seem to invoke not only the materialist views of the world of Marx, but also of Freud, and other now long forgotten apostles of deterministic thought. Is it possible to still see these works eighty years on as modern? They are as much prisoners of their time as are any other opera and less transcendent than I expect great works of art to be.

Franz Wozzeck is a powerless man who has a child out of wedlock with a woman named Marie. He subjects himself to crackpot scientific experiments with a Doctor for a bit of extra money for Marie and their son. Marie feels oppressed by the social stigma of being an unwed mother, but also has eyes for other men. She is particularly attracted to a Drum Major who looks so wonderfully masculine, but is really a mere surface of a person. She has an affair with the Drum Major, which Wozzeck discovers. Since Wozzeck is already teetering on the edge of sanity from his impotence and the experiments, he falls off and stabs Marie after she tells him that she would rather be stabbed than beaten. He leaves her body and tosses the knife in a pond. Later, crazed even more deeply by guilt, he goes into the pond after the knife and drowns. The last moment of the play involves Marie's and Wozzeck's orphan at play and running off the stage oblivious that he is alone in the world.

So, is this the true heart of us all? Is that last moment poignant, sharp irony on the human condition, or mere kitsch? I mean, dealing with the world view of this drama might benefit from as much detachment and irony as you can bring to it.

"Lulu" is even harsher. She is married to a professor of medicine who has a heart attack when he sees her with a painter he has commissioned to paint her portrait. She marries the painter at the urging of another doctor, who is engaged to another, with whom Lulu has had a long term love affair (such as love is in this work). Finally, the doctor understands that the painter really is blind to Lulu's true nature and tells him of her past. He kills himself. Under threat the doctor marries Lulu. She then takes up with a Countess who is enamored of her. Lulu ends up killing him with a revolver he has given her. She is arrested and sentenced to prison.

However, the countess arranges to take her place in prison to aid Lulu's escape. The Countess, the doctor's son, and an athlete help her escape abroad. Lulu then ends up with a wealthy man who ends up being a pimp and sells her to Cairo.

While the opera was incomplete at Berg's early death at fifty, the outline and sketch let us know that she is living in London with the doctor's son and the athlete. When the Countess arrives without money, Lulu is reduced to becoming a streetwalker. She goes through a series of clients who are the musical reincarnations of her various husbands. One of them kills the doctor's son, and the last kills both Lulu and the Countess, since he is Jack the Ripper (!).

The music is powerful and worth knowing because it is so personal to Berg and works its magic quite well. However, I have been at a symphonic concert when the Lulu Suite has been played and seem people get up and leave because they find it so harsh and intense.

Berg was indeed a major composer of the twentieth century. He cannot be merely dismissed. If you want to understand the serious art of that century you must come to terms with these works. You don't have to love them, but you cheat yourself if you don't know them at least a bit. Certainly, the morality of these operas, shocking in their time, is roughly equal to the "normal" behavior in any two episodes of "Friends" and "Law and Order". So, it must be the music that continues to affect people so strongly.

These recordings by Karl Böhm are masterfully done with great sound and solid singing. Some would prefer a different style of Sprechstimme (the half-singing) done here, but I find it appropriately chilling with the singing voice sliding around above the simultaneously sounding singing voice. I have no idea how it is done, but it sounds wonderfully insane.
15 internautes sur 19 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
HASH(0x9fa81288) étoiles sur 5 Classic Wozzeck from 60s 10 juin 2003
Par Un client - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: CD
I had this recording of Berg's "Wozzeck" in the 1960s. I think I was 14. I remember the performance as being one of the greatest I'd ever heard (of anything). I'd rank it with Furtwangler's "Tristan" (which knocked me out, also!) The singing of Evelyn Lear and Fischer-Deskau is magnificent; they have real chemistry, also, something rare in opera. A cast and performance made in heaven. Ranks with the Boulez version.
4 internautes sur 5 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
HASH(0x9fa811c8) étoiles sur 5 This WOZZECK is one of the Greats 2 avril 2010
Par stevenrothbard - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: CD
This great, classic studio recording of Berg's first opera is the first one I heard, having bought the LPs based on reading a summary of the plot. I don't know what I liked about the story, but I immediately loved the Mahlerian score, especially as presented in such a sympathetic recording. The warmth of both Bohm's conducting and Fischer-Deiskau's wonderful voice, and the chemistry of the two principles still comes through forty years later. True, Fischer-Deiskau is perhaps too sane and vocally balanced for his part,but his performance is still one of the greatest because of the genius of his vocal coloring. Though both Abbado and Barenboim present more of the complex inner voices of the score more successfully in their live recordings, this studio version still holds its own due to the great performers and because the studio mix balances the voices with the orchestra perfectly, allowing us to hear all the vocal parts even in the loudest moments. See Werner Herzog's film of WOYZEK for an interesting presentation of the original play by Georg Buchner.

Unfortunately, I can't comment on the LULU, though the Boulez is generally thought to be the best, and it presents the complete score, finally released for publication after the death of Frau Berg.
6 internautes sur 9 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
HASH(0x9fa816d8) étoiles sur 5 WOZZECK only (Lulu judgement suspended): fine singers, excellent orchestral playing, but Karl Böhm conducting & DGG balances?? 3 janvier 2009
Par Alexander Z. Damyanovich - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: CD
NB, this review deals with "Wozzeck" only - I've yet to hear the Lulu recording; furthermore, that work at this time is almost unknown to me.

Having received this recording as a gift very recently, I find myself comparing it to Abbado's DVD version as well as (to a lesser extent) Cambreling's DVD and von Dohnanyi's Decca/London CD recordings. [If Abbado's DGG CD recording is derived from the DVD of the same performance, then it can naturally be included in the comparison here... Otherwise, it's through this recording that I came to first be acquainted with this opera over 21 years ago.]

People have written and spoken about Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau as being too poetic for the rôle of Wozzeck, making him seem too intelligent (perhaps relative to that part in Act I, Scene 1, where the Captain teases him after tricking him about a gale blowing from South-North - yet he's simply acknowledging the Captain's speaking {"indeed, Sir Captain"}!). Still, it's precisely that poetic side that for me helps humanise this unlucky character and makes Herr Fischer-Dieskau a standout on this recording to the point that nobody else can compare with him in this rôle. That, combined with his warmth of tone and sympathetic characterisation of Wozzeck - for me - carries the day, even over Franz Grundheber's excellent effort for Abbado and Wächter's work for von Dohnanyi. [Neither of these other two gentlemen are slouches or inferior in the least - they're simply outclassed by such a supreme performance.]

Similarly, somebody wrote about Hildegard Behrens as sounding "threadbare" in the rôle of Marie for Abbado. That description for me is better applied to Evelyn Lear on this recording, who also seems at times somewhat strained in this rôle even while having some stellar moments (including some excellent very LOW notes, unusual for a soprano: G and even E below the staff - Behrens gets the G but not the E for Abbado {Act II Scene 1}). Perhaps this inclination to a somewhat mezzo or contralto-ish feeling in her voice accounts for some of the occasional strain although her high notes (e.g., C in Act III Scene 1) leave nothing to be desired 'per se'. Certainly it feels more in character for a woman who at the end has lived more than her full share of life in a disproportionately short time, the result being that she's worn down by her guilt (compounded by her inability to understand Wozzeck's wild visions), despair at the dismal circumstances in which she finds herself, and her premonition of evil to come (with Wozzeck murdering her for her infidelity). [This isn't to say I prefer her over Behrens - quite the opposite: Behrens wins for me due to her somewhat classier handling of the Sprechstimme in Act III, Scene 1, even if it isn't quite as 'cabaret'-tish or likely completely what Berg might have wanted (that Evelyn Lear here captures, no question - this is a matter of taste...). I also gravitate to Behrens on account of her tone and overall handling of the rôle. In the end, it boils down to a choice between intensity for Lear (which she certainly has!!) vs. a youthful type of beauty for Behrens in the end (especially in a work that needs all the beauty it can get)... Thus it's a real toss-up: much as I favour Behrens for Abbado, it's a personal thing for me and there's no question of Lear getting other than the strongest of recommendations here - brava!!!]

Of the other characters, Kurt Böhme (1st Handcrafts-Apprentice), Fritz Wunderlich (Andres) and - particularly! - Gerhard Stolze (an absolutely SUPREME Captain - for me and most certainly others, he owns the rôle as much as Fischer-Dieskau does for Wozzeck!!!) are all excellent, comparing more than well with their Abbado counterparts (though Alfred Sramek, Philip Langridge and particularly Heinz Zednik do Abbado no less proud!). Less convincing to me is Hans Christian Kohn as the "Doktor" (here I prefer Abbado's Aage Haugland, who's a real ham!!), though he certainly has his part mastered; while as far as the Drum-Major parts are concerned, it's another toss-up between Walter Raffeiner for Abbado vs. Helmut Melchert in this case (my vote goes to Raffeiner in terms of somewhat greater intensity, but this is a small difference). Still, overall Böhm has a bit of an edge with his solo-singers (a nice touch is Martin Vantin's beautiful handling of the momentary part of the Idiot!).

What makes me hesitate to give this recording a full 5 stars is Böhm's conducting as well as some of Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft's balances. Apparently, DGG at that time in history favoured having the solo-voices placed well forward, even at the expense of the orchestra getting less than full justice - a bias favoured enough of the time by Karl Böhm himself (an even worse example is the same team's live recording of Richard Strauß's "Salome" in Hamburg several years later with Gwyneth Jones in the title-rôle!). The result is that sometimes the accompaniment is so underpowered as to even become ridiculous, where orchestral details get quite lost (e.g., the military band of Act I, Scene 3 is virtually inaudible at the start and remains so much in the background as to never be appreciated for its full worth; another is the solo-viola in part of Act I, Scene 1). Furthermore, Böhm seems to prefer not to have some of his players - notably the tubist - play notes that, being potentially problematic 'per se' although called for by the composer as his preferences, risk going against Böhm's "light" accompaniment penchant. [This is in complete contrast to Decca/London under Culshaw at that very same time, where the orchestra is considered so important so as to have every detail caught, even if occasionally the voices get somewhat overpowered.] Consequently, the orchestra - very good in itself - some of the times (fortunately not always!) doesn't make the full impact it should - worse yet, Böhm's sometimes inconsistent, as at the end of Act I, Scene 4 (where the voice of the "Doktor" has to fight to be heard!). This is where Abbado wins, especially given how the Wiener Philharmoniker outclasses all but those few orchestras in the very same class as itself (Berlin and/or Czech Philharmonic, perhaps the Amsterdam Concertgebouw - either way, a very small number...)!

This same "lightish" tendency also affects Böhm's interpretation, both in tempi and instrumental stresses - there are times I truly miss the riveting intensity and harmonic richness overall better brought out by Abbado, the principal soloists of Böhm notwithstanding (Fischer-Dieskau as well as Lear, Stolze and Wunderlich help redress the balance compared to what it likely would otherwise have been!). [It's here that Böhm's basic shallowness comes out (compared to Abbado), as with his Wagner and Richard Strauß (for those other two composers I definitely favour Solti or Bernstein {in "Tristan und Isolde" for the latter}, perhaps Karajan too, especially with the latter {Strauß} given Böhm's penchant for making cuts!!) - maybe he should have stuck with Mozart (probably he's a 2nd-rate "Kapellmeister" even there, though I can't be certain thereof since he turned me off enough already from wishing to hear more of him)...]

If it hadn't been that this recording is already underrated overall at only four stars (in part due to some people attacking the "Lulu"-torso portion on account of Evelyn Lear in the title-rôle - whether justly or unjustly, I can't judge at this time...), that would have been my grade for it; it's because of it so being belittled by others that yours truly has given it five (especially since it in the end is "Wozzeck" for which this recording pair is treasured)! Thus, it is strongly recommended - but with the definite reservations regarding orchestral and recording balances! [If you want a recording I'll unreservedly endorse, go for Abbado (assuming the CDs match or surpass the DVD I'm referring to). There also seemed to be (from listening to some parts thereof many years ago) some fine things with the von Dohnanyi recording (Wächter struck me as a very fine Wozzeck!).]
Ces commentaires ont-ils été utiles ? Dites-le-nous

Discussions entre clients

Le forum concernant ce produit
Discussion Réponses Message le plus récent
Pas de discussions pour l'instant

Posez des questions, partagez votre opinion, gagnez en compréhension
Démarrer une nouvelle discussion
Première publication:
Aller s'identifier

Rechercher parmi les discussions des clients
Rechercher dans toutes les discussions Amazon


Souhaitez-vous compléter ou améliorer les informations sur ce produit ? Ou faire modifier les images?