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Charles Ives : Symphonies n° 1 et n° 4 Import

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  • Charles Ives : Symphonies n° 1 et n° 4
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Détails sur le produit

  • Interprète: Chicago Symphony Orchestra and Chorus
  • Chef d'orchestre: Michael Tilson Thomas
  • Compositeur: Charles Ives
  • CD (22 mars 1991)
  • Nombre de disques: 1
  • Format : Import
  • Label: Mis
  • ASIN : B0000026QA
  • Autres versions : Téléchargement MP3
  • Moyenne des commentaires client : 4.0 étoiles sur 5 2 commentaires client
  • Classement des meilleures ventes d'Amazon: 84.621 en Musique (Voir les 100 premiers en Musique)
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Descriptions du produit

SYMPHONIES 1 & 4


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Format: CD
Ainsi pour la Symphonie n°1 (ouvrage très conventionnel, écrit comme devoir d'examen au diplôme du Yale College en 1898), les partitions Faber Music Ltd ont été préférées en tant qu'elles intègrent les révisions confiées à Frank Samarotto.
Ceci dit, malgré les coupures et libertés que Zubin Mehta (Decca) et Eugene Ormandy (CBS) prenaient avec le texte, je trouve que leurs prestations savaient insuffler un panache, une vigueur, une chaleur que laisse désirer l'interprétation certes très propre mais trop cérébrale de Michael Tilson-Thomas. Cette page de jeunesse aurait mérité la poigne d'un Bernstein, qui hélas ne l'enregistra jamais à ma connaissance.

En 1965, Associated Music avait reconstitué la partition de la Symphonie n°4 qui servit aussitôt à l'historique enregistrement de Leopold Stokowski (CBS). Suivirent Harold Farberman (Vanguard, 1967), José Serebrier (RCA, 1974). Puis Seiji Ozawa (DG) en 1976 : cette même année, une équipe de musicologues coordonnée par James Sinclair commença à élaborer une édition que Tilson-Thomas présenta en concert à Miami le 17 novembre 1988, avant de la graver avec l'orchestre de Chicago pour Sony selon la partition Schirmer Ltd.
Là encore, l'exécution pilotée par le chef américain se montre extrêmement méticuleuse (et quelle concentration faut-il pour superposer sans cacophonie les imperscrutables strates polyrythmiques de "Comedy" !!). Pour un résultat sonore qui m'apparaît, sinon austère, du moins... ascétique.
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Format: CD
Concernant la Symphonie n°4 de Charles Ives (un monument du classique américain, et d'une importance considérable pour l'évolution de la musique au 20ème siècle en général), si je devais choisir entre cette version et celle de Seiji Ozawa disponible chez Deutsche Grammophon, je prendrais celle-ci parce qu'elle est bien plus fluide, particulièrement sur les second et quatrième mouvements. C'est particulièrement audible sur les passages surchargés en percussions qu'Ozawa ne maîtrise pas du tout. Le dernier mouvement est interprété de manière à la fois plus sereine et plus sombre, là où Ozawa surcharge en grands effets. Le disque est complété par une version de la Première Symphonie, laquelle est simplement agréable, et par des interprétations d'hymnes sans grand intérêt.
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Amazon.com: 4.6 étoiles sur 5 14 commentaires
47 internautes sur 48 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
5.0 étoiles sur 5 Stunning Recording/Performance/Interpretation 20 mars 2002
Par George John - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: CD Achat vérifié
I caught the Ives "bug" in 70's while in college. I heard the Houston Symphony and Lawrence Foster perform the 4th live in Jones Hall. While completely baffled by much of what I heard, I knew I had to learn more about this composer. I bought and listened to as many LP's as I could afford, among them was the Ormandy/Philadelphia 1st and Stokowski/American Symphony 4th on Columbia. I was fond of both the 1st and 4th, but set them both aside until recently. I listened to them both, found that I still enjoyed them very much, but found both lacking from a sound quality point of view. I searched the Web and found glowing reviews of this CD. Well, the reviews are 100% justified. This CD will quite possibly become my favorite in my collection.
Pairing the 1st and the 4th makes sense. George Ives told his son, "You have to learn the rules before you can break them". The 1st clearly shows that Ives learned the rules admirably. The work is both moving at times and tremendous fun. Take a young, creative, and relatively uninhibited musical genius, expose him to the great European masters like Brahms, Dvorak, Wagner, and Beethoven, mix in church hymns, American folk and band music, and you will get the Ives 1st Symphony.
Comparing the Ormandy to the Tilson Thomas, while I'm very fond of the Ormandy reading, I find the Tilson Thomas to be overall significantly more satisfying. The Ives 1st is a technically challenging work particularly for the 1st violins. Except for a few very minor flaws, the CSO strings meet the challenge. Tilson Thomas extracts more of the music from the score. The recording engineers get an A+ for overall balance and sound. This is a fine, very accessible work which deserves many more performances in the concert hall than what I suspect it currently gets.
Between the First and Fourth are performances of five hymns that are used in the Fourth - a nice bonus.
It's difficult for me to discuss the Ives Fourth. I have been a fan of the work since I first heard it. The third, slow movement is a reworking of the first movement of the First String Quartet. It's accessible, beautiful, and deeply moving. The other three movements are experimental music at its all time best -- powerful, baffling, mysterious, chaotic, and profoundly moving. This music arguably could have been an intellectual exercise only, but somehow completely transcends this, and becomes something which I can only, given my limitations as a music listener, view with great awe and mystery. For me this music is completely engaging, fascinating, transports me at times into an altered state of mind that I can't even begin to describe, and ultimately moves me to the strongest and most deeply felt of emotions.
I considered this work to be a masterpiece in a category all by itself. If there are other works like this one, I want to know about them, please.
I give this release the highest of all possible recommendations. The attention to detail and how successfully it has been captured on disk is simply amazing.
33 internautes sur 34 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
5.0 étoiles sur 5 A Fine Ives CD! 6 mars 2000
Par Un client - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: CD
If you are collecting Ives' symphonies, this is a sensitive, clean and appealing performance of No. 1. The inclusion of five old American church hymns on this CD is an interesting idea. While I doubt anyone will buy this CD for these hymns, I appreciate the concept of inserting them as a prelude to Ives' Sym. No. 4, since Ives does quote these particular hymns in the symphony. As for Sym. No. 4: I loved my old vinyl recording, but I love this CD even more! Conductors might interpret this extremely complex music in varying ways, but somehow No. 4 conveys its unmistakeable "message" in every recording I've heard. Ives' genius was truly unique. A native of Danbury CT, he was experimenting with polyrhythms, quarter-tones, and free atonalism long before Schoenberg and Stravinsky brought them into style. Has any other composer so daringly and so successfully raised such humble materials to such a sublime level? How can two marching bands playing different pieces at the same time be so right? How can chaos make such perfect sense? Somehow Ives makes disorder into something transcendently perfect, and yes...piercingly beautiful. The final movement might provoke a mystical vision if you're not careful. Michael Tilson Thomas truly loves modern music, and it shows in this recording. He brings out the Emersonian-mystical quality of Ives' music very effectively, but also utilizes the power of the C.S.O. to emphasize the surprising muscle beneath this music, which I had not noticed in other recordings. As you might expect with the C.S.O., the performance is precise (perhaps a strange term to use with this symphony) but also emotionally charged. The chorus does a beautiful job with its haunting, critical role in the 1st and last movements. I recommend this CD highly, and hope it will help more people appreciate Ives' genius.
21 internautes sur 21 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
5.0 étoiles sur 5 Detail of Ives's Evolution over Time 25 mars 2004
Par A. Michaelson - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: CD
This CD consists of the Charles Ives's first and last symphonies. The first is a work that Ives wrote as his thesis while a music student at Yale. It demonstrates Ives's mastery of the late 19th century style. It's an interesting and thoroughly engaging work of music, but nothing spectacular. The real highlight of this disc is the 4th symphony, which is probably the best played version of this piece currently available. The fourth is Ives's most ambitious and experimental work. It experiments with atonality, polytonality, polyryhthms, and the layering of multiple orchestras (or at least the impression of layering multiple orchestras). Plus, in typical Ives fashion, the fourth includes numerous quotes to popular American music of his time, especially marches and ragtime. What sets this recording of the fourth apart from the numerous others that are available is its Americanness. The other available recordings are conducted by non-Americans who don't seem to have a real grasp of the uniquely American qualities of this piece. Other recordings tend to suffer from a very modernist approach. The playing is precise and the multiple textures are very clear...however, that's not the point of this piece. MTT makes this piece swing, which is exactly how it's supposed to be played. Listen to the quotes from ragtime and marches in other versions of this piece as compared to the ragtime and american marches in this recording. This recording sounds very American and captures the essence of turn of the century American music, wheras the other recordings play this swinging music as if it were an excercise in precision conducting. Yes, if you want to hear the music played with precise and clearly articulated textures, go for the Ozawa recording. If you want to hear the fourth as the revolutionary piece of music that celebrates America, as Ives meant to be heard, then pick up this recording.
12 internautes sur 12 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
5.0 étoiles sur 5 Overwhelming 25 juin 2008
Par Lawrence Rapchak - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: CD Achat vérifié
I am baffled by the review of this disc from November 2003; can we be listening to the same performance?

To put it mildly, Tilson-Thomas' Ives Fourth Symphony is a MAJOR accomplishment in the way in which it documents this maddeningly complex and unfathomable work---and after 37 years of familiarity with it (I sat through every rehearsal and performance by Michael Charry and the Cleveland Orchestra in October, 1971), I have never recognized the truly profound quality of this music until hearing the CSO/Tilson-Thomas recording.

MTT absolutely grasps the structure, phrasing and pacing of the Ives Fourth. The effect of the distant violin/harp "star" music in the opening is beautifully realized, as is is amost every other detail of the movement. The outlandish second movement is captured in all of its phantasmagoric glory; MTT follows Ives' rather quick tempos throughout, and once again lays out the structure and detail of the music with total logic and clarity---not to mention amazingly VIVID character!

But it is in the FINALE that Tilson-Thomas acheives something quite extraordinary. Most conductors (including Ozawa in his brisk and uninvolving reading) don't seem to have a CLUE as to the true mystical, solemn and otherwordly nature of this movement. I was encouraged upon discovering that MTT's finale timing is 10:30 (as compared to Ozawa's 8:00 and Dohnanyi's 8:38), but I could not have been prepared for the movement's ultimate overwhelming effect. Who could possibly imagine that the raucous, radical, iconoclastic music of Charles Ives might actually hover in the same rarified sphere as the great spiritual works of Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart? Preposterous, you say? Don't speak too soon......

And as the magical layers of sound (starting at 7:28)---ethereal strings, gently tolling bells, gently intoned hymns--- gradually coalesce into a glorious chorale-like cadence (at 8:09 ~ FINALLY a conductor who understands and appreciates this sublime moment), the chorus enters...
again, PERFECTLY emerging from the texture, and ultimately floating into some vast, radiant expanse...with the eternal percussion procession, the distant "star" music and the final choral echos drifting into infinity.

Yes, I realize my attempts to describe this music sound cliched....but you simply will not BELIEVE the total effect of this great, visionary work in the hands of a conductor who really understands it.

Minor gripes: the secondary (orchestral) piano is a bit too distant most of the time, and the abundance of high, divisi writing for the violins, which should create a transparent, etheral effect, is simply too bright and obtrusive throughout(the CSO strings during this period were always in danger of being overpowered by the great brass section, which delivers the chorales here with a power and grandeur unlike any other recording I have heard).

I admire the Ozawa recording, since the sound, especially in the second movement--it is as CLEAN, detailed, and brilliantly balanced as could possibly be imagined. In THAT respect, Ozawa really excelled. But the sense of awe, mystery and the otherworldly which Ives, despite his inherently clumsy and rather "raw" compositional technique, still managed to achieve in this music is almost entirely absent from Ozawa's--and every other performance I have heard--- compared with this one. If you have ANY interest in exploring the enigmatic genius of Charles Ives, get this CD.
5 internautes sur 5 ont trouvé ce commentaire utile 
5.0 étoiles sur 5 Superb performances 7 mars 2011
Par Bella - Publié sur Amazon.com
Format: CD Achat vérifié
When it came to tinkering around with his music and providing this version and that version, Charles Ives was a bit of an Anton Bruckner. It was Michael Tilson Thomas and the redoubtable Chicago Symphony Orchestra who came out with first recordings of Ives' revised editions of both these symphonies. The first, while a charming piece, is very much a student work, but the majestic fourth is probably the blazing pinnacle of American symphonic music. Paraphrases of four hymns that Ives uses in his piece de resistance make a pleasing musical interlude between the two symphonies. If you are an Ives fan, and sadly many people are not, then this CD is an absolute must.
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